Seller's Rights and PayPal

[fortesque]

Thomas, Alton, et.al.
Looked at the PayPal agreement and under Software noticed that PayPal doesn't provide seller's rights. What happens when the seller (such as you Thomas or you Alton) sell a software application and the buyer is dissatisfied with the purchase and contests the sale and wants a refund. If the sale was fully electronic and no physical product was shipped but distributed through a download,(Thomas, such as TSBPro) the user will have access to the product and could have actually used it and still want a refund. The seller is at the mercy of PayPal to adjudicate and can be out the sales dollars while the user has access to the software. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, what's the recourse? Or am I creating a problem where one doesn't exist. Or maybe there is a problem but another way around it.
Would appreciate your thoughts.

John Burns

[TigerSoftware]

Thomas, Alton, et.al.
Looked at the PayPal agreement and under Software noticed that PayPal doesn't provide seller's rights. What happens when the seller (such as you Thomas or you Alton) sell a software application and the buyer is dissatisfied with the purchase and contests the sale and wants a refund. If the sale was fully electronic and no physical product was shipped but distributed through a download,(Thomas, such as TSBPro) the user will have access to the product and could have actually used it and still want a refund. The seller is at the mercy of PayPal to adjudicate and can be out the sales dollars while the user has access to the software. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, what's the recourse? Or am I creating a problem where one doesn't exist. Or maybe there is a problem but another way around it.
Would appreciate your thoughts.

John Burns

Most of the time, Paypal will side with the seller since it is a digital download. They won't interfere with digital items. It is the chargebacks that you would need to worry about if they used a credit card.

It happens. I just had a reversal on one for the Pro version. Luckily they won't be able to use it past February and won't get the updated version I am releasing soon.

It is just part of business.


Once I get the php script done, sometime this year, you will be able to stop their use of the program when they refund.



Thomas

[Dexx]

Hey John,

This might help too:

http://profittigersystems.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=70

[fortesque]

Most of the time, Paypal will side with the seller since it is a digital download. They won't interfere with digital items. It is the chargebacks that you would need to worry about if they used a credit card.

It happens. I just had a reversal on one for the Pro version. Luckily they won't be able to use it past February and won't get the updated version I am releasing soon.

It is just part of business.


Once I get the php script done, sometime this year, you will be able to stop their use of the program when they refund.



Thomas
Thomas and Dexx:
Your responses cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Thanks.
John Burns

[RichHamilton]

Will they steal your stuff?

Gem of a 1998 quote from Bill Gates, speaking at the University of Washington:
"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

It's an old quote, but seemed to serve him well til then and since. Refunders are as bad, they take and share. The key is to put enough hooks back to your other products and services so someone, eventually, buys and doesn't refund.

And it's not just PayPal... in fact, PayPal is pretty good. Most banks won't back you unless you can prove delivery. And if they say someone took their card and used it without permission? You haven't got a prayer anywhere. The best part of that is that PayPal has pretty good fraud prevention in place. And if you use a bank'/merchant account, use their fraud protection suite. It's worth it.

[MikeM]

At least with PayPal you get to respond to a refund request. At ClickBank you have no say whatsoever. The customer asks for a refund and they get it. They don't even have to contact you. This is why I moved to PayPal.

[Dexx]

This came up in another forum when someone requested a refund for a low quality ebook they purchased. The seller ignored them so they complained to paypal and paypal sided with the seller since they don't refund for quality only over for not receiving an item.

[MikeM]

To make a long story short, if you offer a 30 or 60 day money back guarantee, you better honour it. If you don't offer any gurantee, you better state that on your sales page.

My rule is if it's in the guarantee period, I refund it. If it's over the guarantee period, then there better be a damn good reason for the refund or I don't give it. If there is a good reason, I may give it.

I feel it's always more important to protect your name than to worry about a 30.00 sale. :)